So Joe, did you get your flange rings? I was holding out for my trike project, when I’ll mid-mount my Rohloff on the frame of my Electric Cargo Trike (with two of Ryde’s strongest Andra 40 Rims at the back ( rated to 180kg and eBike 45kph) and Sapim ‘Strong.’ But yes, I thought about wrecking my Rohloff and the cost of hiring a work vehicle while waiting for a new Speedhub ….

So I just put the Flange Rings onto the Rohloff and rebuilt it with those Rohloff (Sapim) Double Butted spokes (on my old Rhyno Lite rim) and damn I’m glad. It cost about $175 at Omafiets, Sydney, and my rear wheel is now a lot stronger, if not yet officially bullet proof.

232mm will be fine.

Are you sure it’s 234? I checked and it seems to be 232. The ERD for Andra 30 is 535. https://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Manual_2017_11_web_En.pdf

I checked on the old document that you referred to as well but it gives the same result: https://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/_migrated/content_uploads/ENGLISH_OEM_36_2013.pdf

I’m asking because I’m in the process of changing the rim and I was hoping not to have to buy new spokes as well. What I have are 232mm long.

I think you’re safe with that decision. There are thousands of people who have experienced no problems with these rims on long-term bike trips, myself included.

I have Mavic XM 719 rims and I’ve never had problems with them, but now I’m considering changing the rear rim to ryde andra 30 to be on the safe side cause I’m planning on going on a big tour, so this is not exactly what I wanted to be reading now :/

I’d be lining up those spare spokes well in advance and maybe through a European seller. Don’t forget to put flange rings on too. Rohloff says all speed hubs should be fitted to avoid flange failure.

Hi again Alee,

Have you see my reference to this, from Paul Moir, the Australian Rohloff distributor? It’s about the ideal Rohloff Wheel lacing pattern being a Single Cross. I’ve been looking for confirmation before I build my next wheel but haven’t received a reply yet.

“WHEEL LACING PATTERNS

“As explained, the more often a spoke crosses, the force from the rim will be directed into the flange further outward thus having less direct influence on flange stability. The greater angle created however will cause the spoke to enter the rim at a more obtuse angle. Rims are drilled to permit a certain amount of nipple movement so that the route from spoke to nipple remains as straight as possible. If the spoke entry angle is too obtuse, spokes will kink at the nipple join and this kink will lead to premature spoke failure. The situation is made worse when using hubs with a large spoke P.C.D. such as the Rohloff Speedhub and worse still when using modern rims with eyelets – where eyelets are reduced in diameter below 4.4mm (to save vital steel weight) so that the nipple has even less space to angle itself in the direction of the spoke. The ideal spoke lacing pattern for the Rohloff Speedhub wheel is actually 1-cross, although our customers would not accept this when the Speedhub was first introduced. Hence our recommendation remains a 2-cross lacing pattern for wheels of 26 inch diameter and larger (see image link below showing the spoke entry angle for a 1-cross Speedhub wheel laid over that for a typical 3-cross derailleur wheel).”

https://www.facebook.com/rohloffaustralia/photos/pcb.219140375246148/219129985247187/?type=3&theater

This appears in full here, where Paul first bought it up with me and others

http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93757

then at the Facebook link just above. I’d be interested to know your thoughts.

The Australian Distributor says

SPEEDHUB WHEEL STRENGTH & STABILITY

When the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 is built up (32 or 36 spoke wheel), it is considerably stronger than typical 36 spoke wheels. The stability is similar to that of a 48 spoke tandem wheel.

The spoke flanges of the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 are constructed symmetrically. This allows all spokes to be at the same angle on both sides of the finished wheel, which results in a much stronger wheel due to the evenly distributed spoke tension. To build a strong Rohloff wheel, the spokes must be tensioned to a minimum of 1000N (with inflated tire). The typical derailleur rear wheel needs to be dished to accommodate the room required by the cassette…. this creates a huge difference in spoke tension. The tension on the dished side is usually considerably higher (over 1200N) and this can lead to problems with the spoke nipples sitting correctly within their seats in the rim (see image attached, pretension in the “8-speed rear hub” here is only 600N).

Due to the increased diameter of the hub flanges and PCD of the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14, the spokes need cross only two times, but do so roughly at the same angle as a three cross lacing pattern on smaller flanged hubs. There is less load on the spokes because of the large flange PCD diameter and the hub flange is subjected to lower forces because these spokes pull further away from the axle center, creating a better lever to pull the wheel around (torque = force x lever length).

The same image shows the maximum spoke loads (numbers in brackets are the pre-tensioned forces of spokes after lacing).

WHEEL LACING PATTERNS

As explained, the more often a spoke crosses, the force from the rim will be directed into the flange further outward thus having less direct influence on flange stability. The greater angle created however will cause the spoke to enter the rim at a more obtuse angle. Rims are drilled to permit a certain amount of nipple movement so that the route from spoke to nipple remains as straight as possible. If the spoke entry angle is too obtuse, spokes will kink at the nipple join and this kink will lead to premature spoke failure. The situation is made worse when using hubs with a large spoke P.C.D. such as the Rohloff Speedhub and worse still when using modern rims with eyelets – where eyelets are reduced in diameter below 4.4mm (to save vital steel weight) so that the nipple has even less space to angle itself in the direction of the spoke. The ideal spoke lacing pattern for the Rohloff Speedhub wheel is actually 1-cross, although our customers would not accept this when the Speedhub was first introduced. Hence our recommendation remains a 2-cross lacing pattern for wheels of 26 inch diameter and larger (see the diagram below showing the spoke entry angle for a 1-cross Speedhub wheel laid over that for a typical 3-cross derailleur wheel).

The examples shown in the image attached of the 3-lacing patterns are for a 20 inch wheel (as originally drawn in full-size). The fact that the angle increases with the number of spoke crosses however, remains the same regardless of wheel diameter (note that the spoke entry angle for a 1-cross, 26 inch Speedhub wheel is 5.0° and a 3-cross, 26 inch derailleur wheel is 4.5°).

As you can see, the 1-cross Speedhub and 3-cross derailleur spoke angles are identical and therefore both offer equal flange stability if laced and tensioned with the correct spokes. The Speedhub however remains the laterally stronger wheel of the two, due to the equal spoke length and symmetrical lacing of the un-dished wheel (this permits even spoke tension throughout the build).

Thanks for the bulletin link Joe. It answers a question I’d put to Rohloff AG in Germany, who ignored it. I’d asked if the Rohloff supplied 2.9mm Neck spokes were Sapim (or DT). I believe these Rohloff spokes are available in the length I need but I better check that out so I can attach that Flange Support sooner, on an ideal wheel, instead of the thing I’m riding around on.

Now here’s something very interesting from Paul Moir, the Australian Rohloff Distributor re Lacing, in which he says that the best Rohloff Lacing is not even 2 cross overs but 1, and a link to the Facebook page where he has diagrams. I’ve asked him to confirm that this is best and asked why but am yet to hear back. Apparently it freaked people out – but it the physics supports this as the ideal, I want it.

WHEEL LACING PATTERNS

As explained, the more often a spoke crosses, the force from the rim will be directed into the flange further outward thus having less direct influence on flange stability. The greater angle created however will cause the spoke to enter the rim at a more obtuse angle. Rims are drilled to permit a certain amount of nipple movement so that the route from spoke to nipple remains as straight as possible. If the spoke entry angle is too obtuse, spokes will kink at the nipple join and this kink will lead to premature spoke failure. The situation is made worse when using hubs with a large spoke P.C.D. such as the Rohloff Speedhub and worse still when using modern rims with eyelets – where eyelets are reduced in diameter below 4.4mm (to save vital steel weight) so that the nipple has even less space to angle itself in the direction of the spoke. The ideal spoke lacing pattern for the Rohloff Speedhub wheel is actually 1-cross, although our customers would not accept this when the Speedhub was first introduced. Hence our recommendation remains a 2-cross lacing pattern for wheels of 26 inch diameter and larger (see image link below showing the spoke entry angle for a 1-cross Speedhub wheel laid over that for a typical 3-cross derailleur wheel).

https://www.facebook.com/rohloffaustralia/photos/pcb.219140375246148/219129985247187/?type=3&theater